PODCAST

Sabrina Marie Chase
Welcome to the Grounded Magic Podcast. We have a treat for you today! Today’s guest is creative songwriter and writer, Holly Holt. She comes to us to tell us about how she learned to follow her internal, natural rhythms, and how she has rejected having a career in favor of doing what she loves. And she has made it work.

Sabrina Marie Chase
So a little more about Holly: Holly is a writer and depth facilitator who offers experiences that facilitate self-trust for sensitive, creative, women, who’ve struggled to find a place in this noisy, demanding world. Her experiences as a singer/songwriter, yoga teacher, and student of Personality Theory inspired her to start leading immersive writing circles for women in 2012. Most recently, she released the Rhythmic Ritual, a self-paced, embodied journaling practice that can be done every day, and launched the Story Tending Immersion: an intimate group coaching circle. She’s excited for her next release, My Messy Memoir, in the fall. When she’s not leading women to the waters of their own creativity, you’ll find her writing, walking, rescuing cats, or driving the backroads without a map.

April Terreau
Hello and welcome to the Grounded Magic Podcast. I’m April Terreau.

Sabrina Marie Chase
And I’m Sabrina Marie Chase.

April Terreau
And today we have a beautiful, beautiful person here. Hello Holly.

Holly Holt
Hello

April Terreau
It’s so nice. It’s so nice to have you here. Our friend Megan, who was our first guest on our podcast, said you need to speak to Holly, and once we started chatting with you, we were like, “oh yes, we definitely need to speak with Holly.” So thank you for being a yes, for being on the podcast, because we know you’ve got lots to share with our audience, and we’re very excited about that.

Holly Holt
Oh, thank you. I would, soon as I heard the name of the podcast, I was in.

April Terreau
Awesome. Awesome. Well, good, good thing to bring up is grounded magic. So, first question we ask all of our guests is, “What do you, what is magic to you?

Holly Holt
For me, magic is, it’s, it’s a form of communication, of collaboration. It’s those moments where, where my heart, and your heart can meet with nothing in between. It feels, for me it feels like collaboration with everything around me. With the air, with the, with the water, with the, you know, with the earth. And with people it’s, it’s the mo, it’s the moments of awe, and wonder to me, magic. And it’s when we’re the most human. I think.

April Terreau
I love that are, where our hearts meet with nothing in between and completely connected. Thank you. Thank you. That is beautiful.

Sabrina Marie Chase
So Holly, can you tell us a little bit about the tapestry of your life, and all the threads that came together to bring you to this place?

Holly Holt
Okay, that’s a big question. Um, the threads that came together. I always come back to my matrili, matrilineal line. My mother, my grandmother, my aunt, there’s something about that, that is such a strong thread in my life. My mother was an artist, although she never called herself that, she still is. My grandmother, an artist, a poet, a singer. My aunt I, the other women in, that were surrounding me. They’re all, they were all these creative beings. There was making things. And there’s something about that, and my parents were sort of DIYers before that was a thing. You know, they made, they redid their kitchen. They just remade their kitchen cabinets themselves, and they would refinish furniture. There, there’s something about that, this kind of just being really close to making, that I feel like, is a thread in my life. Even though, when I was young, I don’t know if I was a maker when I was young. I let them do it all, and I just soaked, I was more like a sponge. I just kind of took it all in, you know?

Holly Holt
And so that feels like a thread that continues. Like, every, the women that are drawn to me, that I am drawn to are, are, they’re artists of their own life. Even if they’re not painters, or poets, they’re, they’re, they’re living, they are living art. I feel like that, that is the women that I know. It’s almost like that, that I had that on one side, and then on my, my father, my grandfather, my husband, they are like, this sort of, they’re the grounded force.

Holly Holt
It’s almost like the, the women in my life were the magic, and the men were the grounded force. And always complemented each other. I do come from this long line of long marriages. And I’ve actually struggled with that, because of the world we live in. I see so many women kind of, breaking free of traditional gender roles, and traditional female roles. And I, I’m kind of here in this long marriage, but I feel like there’s, that, I have ground here, to make my magic, right? To do the things that I do in the world.

Holly Holt
So, I’ve never had a career, like other people have careers. I have done lots of things. But I actually, consciously never wanted to have a career that would keep me from being creative. So I’ve had jobs. And I’ve had, I mean, I had a music, I guess you could call it a music career. That, I did that for 10 years. I had the experience of being a musician, and a songwriter. I had the experience of working with elementary school teachers, and children. I had, you know, these different experiences and now I’ve had the experience of being an entrepreneur. But I don’t think of any of them as my career. Because that feels like it’s too, might be the women in my world.

Holly Holt
We don’t do that, we don’t…We’re not so linear. I want the freedom to move and change. So I guess that’s a thread. I mean, there’s so many things, right? There’s so many things. There are threads. You’ve got me thinking. Sorry, I’m pausing here.

Sabrina Marie Chase
We strongly encourage thinking.

Holly Holt
Like what are the threads in my life? Longing. Longing is a thread. For a long time it was waiting. I don’t wait around anymore. So that, that’s different. That’s changed. But longing, when I, you know, I think, but the longing like, leads me somewhere always. And leads me to my next step. It’s like, what is the thing that is pulling at me? And I follow that. And somehow I have created a life where I can do it, most of the time. But I can follow these threads, like, and follow the little pathways. And I think music is a thread for sure, in my life. We used to listen to a lot of music, growing up in the car, and, you know, my parents owned vinyl records, and it wasn’t that my, my parents weren’t big music…They didn’t have a vast record collection. But I felt it in my body. I just loved it.

Holly Holt
Became a musician, and then kind of long time…I actually kind of, I always say, broke up with music. It was so…because it was such an intense relationship. It was so hard to, when I did, you know I kind of stopped being a musician. And I did that, my son was about ten or eleven and, I started really liking his company. And I knew that there were these, there was like two ways I could go. And with the, with the music, if I kept going I would have pulled me away from him more, and more. And that’s what I always wanted, was that kind of a career, I thought. But in the end I wanted to, to be with this person in my life. So I think my relationships, these, I guess these long-term relationships are, you know, they keep coming back. I mean, my son is now, he’s going to be twenty-eight soon. And the other day we were talking, and he said, “Someday, I know, you’re just gonna put everything down. And you’re gonna write a book, for like six months. You’re just gonna do it.” He said, “That’s my dream for you.” I’m like, “Oh my gosh,” this is a person I raised it. was worth it.

Sabrina Marie Chase
That’s wonderful, thats wonderful!

April Terreau
That’s so beautiful. You talk about something you created called Rhythmic Devotion. Can you tell us, what is Rhythmic Devotion? How did you come to it? How was it born?

Holly Holt
Well, it was born actually, a friend told me about the practice of the word of the year. You know, choosing a word for the year? And so I did that a few times. And I thought, “Oh, that’s really cool,” and I, but there was something that was…I couldn’t find a word to describe what I wanted my year to look like. Because I felt like I had been pushing, and kind of following the, the cultural edict you know.

Holly Holt
“We shall hustle, and not take care of ourselves.” And…I don’t even know, I it had to do with…I realized I had been pay, because I had been paying attention, because I had been, you know, spending probably two, or three, or more years. You know, out. When I was finished with music and then I was kind of finished with my day job. And I was on to the yoga, right? That, that phase of my life. And the writing phase. I started journaling regularly and really, realizing that at certain times of the year, my body felt a certain way. And then other times of the year my body felt another way. And I, the idea of say, for even, for yogis, or writers…there’s this idea you have to do it every day, and do it at this time. And, or else you’re not a real yogi. You’re not a real writer. You’re not a real meditator. Whatever the, the curr, you know the idea is.

Holly Holt
And, and so, I…rhythm just came to me, so clearly. It’s like, it’s not a routine. I don’t want to have a routine—but a rhythm! My musical background, that felt really good. And, I’ve always known that the word discipline made me feel bad. It hurt my feelings. And it just didn’t, it felt wrong. And so I said, “I don’t want that, but I want consistency.” But I couldn’t, you know, consistency, also, also boring, don’t want that word. And when I came upon the word devotion, it’s a commitment? No, it’s not quite that, it’s devotion, my heart opened up. And so it was just this combination of these two words, and so, I’ve never, you know, I’ve never really believed in the rigidity of discipline. This kind of punishing, “You must do it this way.” You, the shoulds, right? And I’ve always felt—-like I was talking about earlier, more a fluid. Like I needed to live my life in a more fluid way, because the other way was kind of hurting my body, and my heart. So rhythmic devotion for me is about creating sustainable patterns, based on internal wis, wisdom, rather than all those voices on the outside that.

April Terreau
Holly, you are like, you are transforming my world right now. Thank you for reframing so much for me, this is so great, like, discipline for me, it’s like the shoulds, which immediately on the other side of the shoulds is the, the blame, shame, guilt. Right? It’s like, “Oh, I didn’t get to it today. Oh, I’m such a bad person. I feel bad about it. Ughhhh, I should be doing it better,” and ughhhh, self-flagellation, zero compassion for ourselves. But switching that to a rhythmic devotion, it’s like feeling your own rhythms, and then devoting yourself to your own rhythms. And what works for you, is like, man, it’s like, this is like, blowing my brain off the top of my…I feel like that emoji with the brains kind of blowing up. It’s just so beautiful, because it’s like, I’ve also fought against that, “I have to have a discipline, and I’ve got to like, meditate every day. And if I don’t, then I’m a bad person.”

Holly Holt
Yeah

April Terreau
And then as soon as I accepted it and surrendered to that contraction, it just switched. And then I was like, “Oh! No, it’s time to expand.” And then all these opportunities fell in place, and then boom, I was off and running again. It was just because—it was that whole, paying attention to my own rhythms and my, and devoting myself to my own rhythms. I just thank you. This is such a huge gift.

April Terreau
And I still know I’m creating magic in the world. And I still know that I’m like transforming and moving forward, but I don’t have the discipline. So why is it working? And I think you’re right. It’s like being devoted to the internal rhythms. Like I, sometimes, I think of expansions, and contractions. And I went through a year, a year of contracting like, and I didn’t like it. Because I’m all about expanding and growing, and I hate, I like, resisted it so much. Until I finally just went “Oh, oh, this is where I’m supposed to be.”

Holly Holt
Oh, thank you. And yeah, it mean, you just, what you just said. It’s kind of like those times…it makes me think of midlife. The cocooning phase. And there, it’s just, it’s so tight in there, right? It’s so uncomfortable. And we are becoming something new. I, at least I, that, that was my experience. And I guess I’m still in it. But I mean, I remember being that, that real, constricted place. Where I couldn’t, I felt like I couldn’t move, and then I just, once I just sat with it, yeah, and that, that’s kind of what started all of the, that started the changes when I, when I quit my day job, and thought, you know, that I was somehow going to make a living as a yoga teacher. But I, you know, I’ve kind of cobbled things together. Because of that self forgiveness. Like just, “It’s gonna be okay.” I would give that same grace to someone else.

April Terreau
Yes, I would give that same grace to someone else. And it’s so rare for us to give it to ourselves.

Holly Holt
Yeah. So that’s really to be the practice, yeah, the rhythmic devotion of…treat myself the way I might treat other people.

Sabrina Marie Chase
Thank you, Holly. I also want to pester you a little bit about the practice that you call “Claiming and Naming.” Tell us about this, please.

Holly Holt
Well, I’ll give you an example. So I’m kind of going back and forth in time, in my life. So, before I became an official singer, songwriter, so my son was about two, two and a half years old—I mean, he’s such a part of my story. I always think, like, he’s so much a part of my story. And I knew that I had to get into that creative space again, because I think, I was, you know, I think I was in that constricted place for a while, in my life, feeling like I had to be, you know, I’d gotten married, and then I’d gotten a job. I worked at, for a holistic doctor in San Francisco. So it was sort of cool, but it was also very rigid. And so I didn’t want to be that anymore. And I knew that I had to kind of find myself again, and the person who I knew what, that I was, was a songwriter. Even though I’d never written a song. But I knew that’s who I was. This little girl in me, who used to watch, and listen to the songwriters, knew that, that’s who she was.

Holly Holt
And so, you know, I’ve got this little kid, and you know, I’d have to take, I’d have to go to a doctor’s appointment. Or maybe I’d fill out a form for his school, or something. You know, there’s some little form. I, anything where they asked my job, I said, “Well, I’m not going to put homemaker,” because at the point, at that point, I was an at-home mom, and said “Nope, that’s not that’s not, going on there.” And so I put songwriter.

Holly Holt
And so anytime anyone asked, it was just, that’s what I filled out. And I had started kind of writing lyrics at that point. And then realized, “Oh, I need to, I mean, I could count on somebody else to make the music, but I’ve got to learn.” So I picked up the guitar, and figured out how I might learn how to play it, and got some help.

Holly Holt
So I really believe that, and I told my, I was like my writers. They’re really not mine, but the women who come to write with me. You know, there’s a lot of time, or someone’s interested, maybe, in the writing circles that I do. “Well. I’m not a real writer.” I’m not this, and I said, “Well, you need to start calling yourself one then.” Because nobody is going to give you that title, in the time that you’re going to need it. You need it now. So give it to yourself. I’ll give it to you. But you know, you’ll give it to yourself. So I really, really believe in, we know who we are. And all the external titles that, that are given to us by other people are very nice. But we know who we are, so we might as well just claim it and name it. So that’s kind of what I mean by claiming and naming.

April Terreau
It’s so great. I mean, one of the things like, when I’m in a coaching space, and I’m coaching somebody. One of the things I asked, actually there’s a daily practice that both Sabrina and I do. And one of the questions in the daily practice is, “Who am I being today, right?” So it’s about that being this, as opposed to the doing this. So it’s like, by claiming and naming, that you’re a writer, that automatically opens up actions that you’re gonna take. Like, for you the songwriting. It was like, you know, I’m a songwriter. “Oh, well, I guess I should figure out how to put music to the songs I’m writing.” Okay, so, like that action was just there for you. It was just like an automatic, right? You claimed I’m a songwriter. And I was like, “Oh, well, I got to figure out how to make music then. Okay, let’s pick up a guitar and figure it out, right?” But if you hadn’t had that beingness of songwriter, and if you weren’t being a songwriter, because you declared, “I’m a songwriter,” then that action may not have been so clear and obvious, and that’s what I need to do.

April Terreau
And it’s such a magical concept like, it’s so, like, it just, declaring it. And then, “This is who I am.” And then “Oh, all of these opportunities just kind of feel like they come out of thin air.” Kind of that magical feeling of “Wow, I just chose to be songwriter and then all of these opportunities, like…”

April Terreau
And then all of these conversations and like, it’s like something shifts in your brain, and it like, has all of these opportunities open up. That didn’t exist before you declared who you are—or you couldn’t….the opportunities may have been there, but you didn’t see them.

April Terreau
For my husband and I, it’s like, we chose to be homeowners, even though we were renters and had no idea how to own a house. And then we’re like, “Okay, we’re gonna be homeowners.” And we’re like, “Okay, what does that look like?”

Holly Holt
Right.

April Terreau
Because who you were being was a renter. Who, who I was being was a renter versus a homeowner. We now own a home from some of that magic. So yeah, so it’s really beautiful. It’s a beautiful devotion of naming and claiming. I was gonna call it a practice but I, I caught myself.

Holly Holt
Practice works too. Yeah.

April Terreau
Because it’s a practice, and it doesn’t have to be perfect, right?

Holly Holt
Yeah. And, and, and we can change our mind. I mean, we can say, “I’m always going to be a songwriter, even if I’m not writing songs.” But I can be a songwriter *and*.

April Terreau
Oh, that is…

Sabrina Marie Chase
I love that. I love that. That’s fantastic, giving yourself…

April Terreau
So he, well also giving yourself permission that you’re not stuck to it. I think that’s one of the things that keeps people so stuck, is that they’re so scared to declare something, or they’re so scared to commit to something. Because “What if I don’t like it?”

Holly Holt
“And I have to do it my whole life.”

April Terreau
Yes! Exactly! Then you’re married to it. Well, no—no, you can be a songwriter for six months if you want. You know, if you don’t like it, okay, great. Choose something different. But we have it like, we have to be married to it. And I think that’s something that really stops people, and it prevents them from having the life that they want. Because it’s like, “Oh, that’s too big.” Or, “Oh, I couldn’t do that.” Or, “Yeah you can.” And if you do, great. If you don’t like it, choose something different.

Holly Holt
You know, it, that just makes me think of when I did open mics. And there were some people who would come every week. And they knew that they weren’t that great, as far as, you know, they’re just, they were struggling with it, with the guitar. And they’re like, “Yeah I know my voice isn’t that great.” But they did it because they loved it. And we loved them for it. You know, the guy that lived across the street from me in the other house where we lived? He said, “Oh yeah, I play the guitar almost every day. I only know two songs, but I love to play.” And there’s something really beautiful about that, you know? I’ve, I have been that person like you talked about, who feels like, “I do it, I’m gonna do it all the way.” And…

April Terreau
“I’ve got to win the Grammy. I’ve got to win the Grammy,” right?

Holly Holt
Yeah.

Holly Holt
No, you don’t. You could just play for fun.

Holly Holt
Yeah, so it did start out like that, I’m gonna admit, you know. And then it kind of changed, and morphed, and, and then I thought, “Um, actually that’s good. I, what I did was pretty amazing. And I’m, not only am I a songwriter, I’m a good one. And I could do it again if I wanted to.” It’s been a long hiatus, doing other things. Yeah. So whatever you want to be, just claim it.

Sabrina Marie Chase
So this also connects right away with something else you’ve said to us that’s really fascinating, about how you create consistent, personal, practices. You told us that you do best with an audience, and I’ve never heard that before. So tell us more about this strategy.

Holly Holt
Well, I don’t necessarily always have an audience, but I always say, “My house would be so much cleaner if I had an audience.” Like, if someone was watching me, I’d be like, “Oh, I’m scrubbing the floor now. Look at me. I’m making sure it’s clean.” Because I, I don’t actually care if my house is that clean, in general. But if someone is you know, there, giving me accountability, saying, “Well, you know, if the house is clean, then you can have, you know, people over.”

Holly Holt
That’s probably not a good argument because that’s not necessarily what I want either. But just, I, it’s helpful to, to do things like this where I have someone on the other end, who is keeping me accountable. Putting me on, you know, putting it on the schedule. Even though, I’m not totally a scheduled person, I, I tend to say, “I think I want to do a writing circle,” and just throw it out there. And then people, you know, can sign up. And then I realize, especially if I’ve taken a break from it, how much, how that helps my writing to have other people.

Sabrina Marie Chase
The first thing I want to say is, “Congratulations.” And the second thing I want to say is, “You’ve, that’s what I consider the big lie of writing.” The myth that you write alone, by yourself, and if you can’t something’s wrong with you. When the truth is, that great writing happens when people band together, and keep each other accountable. And that is how I have written, and that’s how my students have written, and I—-congratulations for writing in a way that keeps you sane and on track!

Holly Holt
I mean, I, I had a writing circle, writing group that I went to that wasn’t one that I hosted. But I have my own, you know my own. I have my own practices that are for me, and then I, and then I hold space for other people. But I have this group that I was with for many years, and then I also was doing my own groups, and within the two, I wrote a novel—in fifteen to thirty minute bursts. I did not write that novel alone in my room. I wrote that because I need other people’s energy. I don’t need them, you know it’s not, it’s just knowing that they’re there. It’s almost like having someone sitting next to you and holding your hand. Right? It’s like just the energy of the circle. Started a story that actually made it to the end. And I’m on my second draft of the novel. So you never know what’s going to happen when you, when you put yourself in a space of, of accountability. Of having other people, and the support of other people really, kind of cheering you on.

Holly Holt
Thank you. Yeah, I mean, and I keep telling people that and they’re like, they don’t believe me. Not only have I done it, other people have done it. And people are doing it right now, in my circle, Like, they are choosing to work on one story. And so they come back, whatever the prompt is, they might take one little word from it, and then just go. And they say “I don’t do it when I’m not in the groove.” So I, I believe in that. I mean, just like the yoga classes…I think a lot of people’s practices, you know the sanghas, the meditation sanghas. I mean these are my references. I know people have, you know, other things. Well, even magical, magical groups, covens, you know,

Holly Holt
It’s when you have, right? When you have other people’s energy it’s, that’s what I mean….that’s what I was thinking. That’s what makes me think about magic. Magic can be solitary, but it’s not, we’re never alone. Even when we’re in a room alone. We’re never alone.

Sabrina Marie Chase
Totally! Yes!

Sabrina Marie Chase
Agreed. The elements are always with us. The powers around us are always with us. We are never alone. We work in collaboration always. But it is true that when you have a group of people who share hearts and minds together, doing their own powerful magic, it is a beautiful thing. It is an amazing thing. And it is completely different than when it’s you collaborating with the natural forces.

Holly Holt
Yeah, yeah.

April Terreau
I feel like this is bringing us full circle, because what I’m hearing, and what you’re saying is that you’re actually listening to what works best for you. What works for your own rhythms? How can you devote yourself to your own rhythm? And for you, working with other people, and having other people around is what works best for you. As opposed to, “I’m going to do my twenty minutes every morning of writing,” or “I’m going to sit for three hours in the morning and do my writing.” Because that’s the way somebody said it had to be. I love that you’re listening to yourself, and listening to your own rhythms, and finding what works for you.

April Terreau
It’s so beautiful. And, one of the things we do in the Grounded Magic Podcast is the, near the end of the episode is, one of my sayings is, “Transformation only happens in action.” So, audience, I want you thinking about this. “What did you hear today that you’re going to take into action, into your life, to help you transform into your life, and bring more magic into your world?” And for me, absolutely, I am taking on rhythmic devotion. I am taking on devoting myself to listening to my own rhythm. So checking in with myself. “What is it April needs right here, right now? What does April need right here, right now?” As opposed to, “It’s got to look this way, this way, this way.”

April Terreau
I know. I know for me, it’s like, I have a burst of energy, usually like late afternoon into the evening. And that’s when I get most of my work done. I am not productive in the mornings. It’s just that my way. Like, I like mornings. I’m good for meditating the mornings. I’m good for walking in the mornings, but I’m not good for sitting down and doing my work, work in the mornings. And so I can actually do that, and I can change my own rhythms to work for me. So that’s what I’m taking, just kind of really looking at my schedule in the day, and the disciplines that I have, and just going, “Does this work for me? Is this, is this, more my rhythm, or is it out of rhythm with myself?” So thank you for that beautiful gift. And how about you guys? What are you taking away, and taking into action into your life?

Sabrina Marie Chase
You know, April I think I’m gonna join you in this. I have come back from travel, and I’m still easing in, and I have made a schedule for myself. And I think what I’m taking on is tomorrow, and the day after, I’ll go through it and ask myself, “Does this schedule that I’ve made work with my rhythm?” “Is this working?” Would there be another way that would be more authentic, and feel better? And if so, try that other thing.

Holly Holt
Yeah. What’s, I mean, it’s, it’s such a great conversation. You know, just hearing, I love meeting other people who get it, who understand, right? That, that we don’t have to, we don’t have to follow other people’s rules. And once we can, I don’t know, I, I have to say, even though I write in group, I do write on my own. But I don’t do it, I don’t make myself do it at a certain time of day. I see my notebook, sometimes, and I just want to write in it. Or I’m taking a walk, and something comes to me, and I let it come to me. But I do have the rhythmic, the rhythm of, of coming back to it on purpose. Because that matters. It matters to me. So if something matters to me, I want to make sure I come back to it on purpose. Again, and again. So you’re reminding me just to come back to what I love on purpose.

Sabrina Marie Chase
I like the “on purpose” part of that.

April Terreau
Well, because there’s also the opposite side of, “I just don’t feel like it right now.” And then nothing ever gets done. Because you’ll never feel like it, right? Like, like if you have a commitment to write a novel, or to write a book or whatever. There’s lots of other things I could feel like doing. But I’m committed to writing the book, so I can find that rhythm, and I can devote myself to that rhythm, what is that rhythm, of writing that book feel like to me? How can I like, lean into that as opposed to forcing myself to do it in a very specific way. So it’s kind of a, I see it as a dance, a dance of rhythmic devotion.

Holly Holt
Yeah. Yeah. And, and if you’re, if you’re naming yourself, if you’re saying, “I’m a writer,” then, it actually, if you don’t feel like it, you know you’re going to do it again. If you don’t feel like it that day, you know that you are inherently, in your essence, a writer. And so writers write. And so, you give yourself grace, and say “I need to take this afternoon off, because I have a headache. And tomorrow I am a writer, and I will write again.” Yeah.

April Terreau
So beautiful. Thank you so much Holly, what a beautiful conversation this has been. Thank you for your unique perspective and helping us see things in a whole new light.

Holly Holt
Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. It’s been lovely.

April Terreau
Awesome. Well, thank you listeners. Thank you, our Magi Nation—it’s our nation of magical people out in the world creating magic in your lives. Thank you for listening in. Please follow and subscribe. If you liked this episode we would love to know about it. So leave a review. Get in touch with us. Go to our website, www.groundedmagic.com. We have lots of goodies, and gifts available on the website. We’d love to interact with you, so feel free to email us, and we’ll go from there. Thank you Magi Nation for tuning in, and we’ll see you next time.

Sabrina Marie Chase
Bye.

April Terreau
Now go and take that magic into your day. If you really liked our podcast and don’t want to miss another episode, please subscribe, and/or follow. This allows others to find us more easily and the magic will be multiplied. And we all want more magic in the world. You can also help others find us by rating us and leaving a stellar review.

Sabrina Marie Chase
The Grounded Magic Podcast is powered by IndigoFires Productions. Sound engineered by Eric Terreau of Terreau Studios. Music composed and performed by Eric Terreau. Online business management and website by Natalie Gallagher. Founded by April Terreau and Sabrina Marie Chase.